Surname
Bombay
Given Name
Jean
Variant Name
Visee (de)
Foulsini
Jonckin
Place of birth
Visé
Bombaye
Active period
1460 - 1495
Workplace
Liège
Biography
PlanchartPapal1998, p.119: en octobre 1437, quatre enfants de chœur, dont 3 originaires de Liège, sont adjoints à la chapelle pontificale: Guillaume Scoblant, Pierre de Bomel et Jan Jonckin. Le 2e est propablement Petrus Langhe engagé comme adulte en octobre 1442.
• RepGermanicum, VI, p.322-23 / 3124: Jo Jonkini de Viseto, fam pape et in cap pape cant et cap. Eccl BM Traiect, vac p o Arnoldo Beverwic. 1 juin 1450.
• RepGermanicum VII, p.496: Petrus Pontignon(i) de Yvodio cler Trever dioc … — matu pr de can et preb eccl BM Traiect (16 m arg) vac p o Arnoldi de Beverwick ac p o Johannis Jonckin al de Viseto ac p o Guillermi Jonckin al de Viseto germani d Joahnnis cant et cler in capel pape. 24 febr 51.
• RepGermanicum, VIII, p.377, 2543. Jo de Bonbay fredrici R.I. cant cap, rect benef s Batholom in Rettsez (Rottesez) Aquileg dioc qod acc vig disp sup def nat (p.s.): supplic d imper de disp uberiori… - cler Leod dioc, pleb in Cotsee Aquileg dioc.: prov de benef ad coll prep etc eccl s Lamberti leod, gratis (datum Wienne Patav dioc p Bessarionem in Alamania legatum). 13 juin 1460.
• Regesta Imperii, Chmel: 1467 Juni 9 Neustadt. 5038: Befehl an Jörg Rainer, Vitzthum in Krain, den "Cantoresen" Egid Garin, Hanns Bubay, Mathes Slesier, Hanns Höflinger, Arnold Pikar, Niclas Mayoul, Arnold Flewn und den &513 "Capplen" Caspar Tretzler und Hanns Wuestenstainer 72 Pf. Pfen. für 1 Quartal auszurichten. Il paraît aussi, d’après l’index paru en 1992 dans 5174 et 5352
• Regesten Kaiser FIII (1440-1493), Sonderband 2 [Taxregister der römischen Kanslei, 1471-1475], Vienne, Bölhau, 2001, p. 23, n° 158: 10/7/1471. Item presentacio unius beneficii pro Johanne de Bonbay, cantore domini imperatoris, ad dominum legatum; dominus dedit gratis, quia familiaris domini imperatoris et ad peticionem Johannis Welderich.
• RepGermanicum IX, liste de la cour de Frédéric III enregistrée à Rome le 6 janvier 1469, parmi la chapelle: Johannes Bombagi presb. Leod. dioc. cant. cap.
• Santifaller 1949: preces primariae le 7.10.1486 à Anvers pour le monastère St-Vaast d’Arras (Santifaller1949, p.588, n°43).
• Regesta Imperii, XIV, 1, p. 340/2730, décembre 1495: l’empereur Max confère à Johannes de Borbay alias de Viseto, ancien chapelain de Fréd. III et prêtre du dioc de Liège, une prébende à NivellesSG.
•Mail privé, Dean: 24/9/2001: Johannes Jonckin [Jonkin], alias Johannes de Viseto [Vyzeto], alias Johannes Foulsini [Foulzini], is recorded in the Registri delle Supplicazioni of the papal archives petitioning for benefices in Liège and in and near Visé (halfway between Liège and Maastricht) from 1432 onwards. A supplication of September 1436 calls him a member of the papal household, but he was received into the papal chapel as a choirboy in October 1437. He was last paid as a choirboy in March 1441, and was received as an adult singer in the papal chapel immediately in April 1441; he served until July 1450 and then vanishes from Rome. The documentation for his service in the chapel comes chiefly from the Mandati Camerali (monthly payment lists), supplemented by the Supplicazioni and the Registri Latini (which record actual grants of benefices). The fact that he has not been noticed in later Vatican documents simply means no-one has looked for him. Is there any record of his presence at the Burgundian court after 1450? He was probably born about 1424, and his working life may have extended into the 1480s or 1490s.
Réponse le 12/7/2002 après consultation de Reichert1954, qui propose de confondre Boubay et
• RepGermanicum, VI, p.322-23 / 3124: Jo Jonkini de Viseto, fam pape et in cap pape cant et cap. Eccl BM Traiect, vac p o Arnoldo Beverwic. 1 juin 1450.
• RepGermanicum VII, p.496: Petrus Pontignon(i) de Yvodio cler Trever dioc … — matu pr de can et preb eccl BM Traiect (16 m arg) vac p o Arnoldi de Beverwick ac p o Johannis Jonckin al de Viseto ac p o Guillermi Jonckin al de Viseto germani d Joahnnis cant et cler in capel pape. 24 febr 51.
• RepGermanicum, VIII, p.377, 2543. Jo de Bonbay fredrici R.I. cant cap, rect benef s Batholom in Rettsez (Rottesez) Aquileg dioc qod acc vig disp sup def nat (p.s.): supplic d imper de disp uberiori… - cler Leod dioc, pleb in Cotsee Aquileg dioc.: prov de benef ad coll prep etc eccl s Lamberti leod, gratis (datum Wienne Patav dioc p Bessarionem in Alamania legatum). 13 juin 1460.
• Regesta Imperii, Chmel: 1467 Juni 9 Neustadt. 5038: Befehl an Jörg Rainer, Vitzthum in Krain, den "Cantoresen" Egid Garin, Hanns Bubay, Mathes Slesier, Hanns Höflinger, Arnold Pikar, Niclas Mayoul, Arnold Flewn und den &513 "Capplen" Caspar Tretzler und Hanns Wuestenstainer 72 Pf. Pfen. für 1 Quartal auszurichten. Il paraît aussi, d’après l’index paru en 1992 dans 5174 et 5352
• Regesten Kaiser FIII (1440-1493), Sonderband 2 [Taxregister der römischen Kanslei, 1471-1475], Vienne, Bölhau, 2001, p. 23, n° 158: 10/7/1471. Item presentacio unius beneficii pro Johanne de Bonbay, cantore domini imperatoris, ad dominum legatum; dominus dedit gratis, quia familiaris domini imperatoris et ad peticionem Johannis Welderich.
• RepGermanicum IX, liste de la cour de Frédéric III enregistrée à Rome le 6 janvier 1469, parmi la chapelle: Johannes Bombagi presb. Leod. dioc. cant. cap.
• Santifaller 1949: preces primariae le 7.10.1486 à Anvers pour le monastère St-Vaast d’Arras (Santifaller1949, p.588, n°43).
• Regesta Imperii, XIV, 1, p. 340/2730, décembre 1495: l’empereur Max confère à Johannes de Borbay alias de Viseto, ancien chapelain de Fréd. III et prêtre du dioc de Liège, une prébende à NivellesSG.
•Mail privé, Dean: 24/9/2001: Johannes Jonckin [Jonkin], alias Johannes de Viseto [Vyzeto], alias Johannes Foulsini [Foulzini], is recorded in the Registri delle Supplicazioni of the papal archives petitioning for benefices in Liège and in and near Visé (halfway between Liège and Maastricht) from 1432 onwards. A supplication of September 1436 calls him a member of the papal household, but he was received into the papal chapel as a choirboy in October 1437. He was last paid as a choirboy in March 1441, and was received as an adult singer in the papal chapel immediately in April 1441; he served until July 1450 and then vanishes from Rome. The documentation for his service in the chapel comes chiefly from the Mandati Camerali (monthly payment lists), supplemented by the Supplicazioni and the Registri Latini (which record actual grants of benefices). The fact that he has not been noticed in later Vatican documents simply means no-one has looked for him. Is there any record of his presence at the Burgundian court after 1450? He was probably born about 1424, and his working life may have extended into the 1480s or 1490s.
Réponse le 12/7/2002 après consultation de Reichert1954, qui propose de confondre Boubay et
Foulsini : An entry of the Preces primariae of the new elected king of the roman, dated Antwerp 7/10/1486, says that a benefice in Arras' big St-Vaast monastery has to be given to 'Johannes de Bubay alias de Viseto'. Would we have here a huge and incredibly complete career with no gaps at all between Rome (1432-1450), Bruges (1452-1461, it fits !! though I must say the Boubert-Boubay connexion didn't convince me that much first), and then imperial courts (1461-1486 at least) ??? This makes Johannes Foulsini - Jonckin (- Juvenis) - Boubert - Bubay - alias de Viseto (a nice name, and very simple !) 62 in 1486 since you calculated Foulsini should be born around 1424... perfect (and even perhaps 'trop beau pour etre vrai' as we say in french). The problem is that I don't know if there is any solid path to makes this irrefutable. I'd say more work on Bubay, probably...